Status leds

[Jan T]

Hey Guys,

Thanks to this forum, I've already learned a lot (and improved my German).
But besides the fact I already read a lot about the issue of status leds, I still can't find the right solution.
Please, some extra information would be helpfull.

The problem: I want to switch on/off 3 different light sources and having an extra central off. But I can't fix the status led of the central on/off switch.

I followed the instructions on http://www.eib-kroner.de/eib-funktion_status.html, but I doesn't work. When I switch off the lights using my Homeserver, the status light of the central off is still on.

And being honest ... the author of above article gives 2 possibilities and the second ... I don't understand:eek: .
"Wenn der Schaltaktor ein Rückmeldeobjekt besitzt, wird in dieses Objekt eine weitere Gruppenadresse eingetragen, die dann auch im Tastsensor in das Statusobjekt oder an zweiter Stelle in das Schaltobjekt eingetragen wird. Wenn mit Rückmeldegruppenadressen gearbeitet wird, muss man immer die Telegrammbelastung berücksichtigen - besonders bei Zentralfunktionen. "

What's the point with the "nicht an erster Stelle" and "zweite Stelle".

Thanks for the extra infromation.
Jan

[MarkusS]

What's the point with the "nicht an erster Stelle" and "zweite Stelle".

"nicht an erster Stelle" = not in the first place

"zweite Stelle" = second place

Usually, the group-adress in the first place of a communication-object is the sending one, all other group-adresses are only listening. If you use more than one group-address to trigger one - for example - light, you should add all these group-addresses to all switches so that any switch knows about the state of the light. If the switches have only their (sending) group-address, they will never know if any other switch has changed the state of the light. So you add all other group-addresses that trigger this light to the switch too.

The second part of your quote is about feedback-objects. Some actuators have for every channel a feedback-object to which you can connect a group-address, so, for any state-cahnge you get a confirmation through this feedback-object so that you know that the actuator really did what he was supposed to do.

But: If you trigger many feedback-enabled actuators at the same time through a central switch, you will have a avalanche of confirmations on your EIB which might result in telegram-loss, resending and all the other nasty stuff.

Regards
Markus

[Matthias Schmidt]

With a homeserver, you can avoid especially the problem with central adresses and status leds.

Im my installation I do not use any central adresses. They will be replaced by a homeserver sequence. This gives total control over the way your eib installation reacts when sending a central telegram. Treating status leds as separate objects makes them very flexible, too.

[Kris]

And it even gets more complicated when you have to do this for your dimmers.

Attached an example of the way I configure Dimmers with TS2's, HS and Visu. Probably not the only way to do it, but is works fine for me.

@MarkusS : I agree that using status feedback on every switch could give some serious bus load, but using it only on dimmers seems to be acceptable (anyway I do not know of another way to get them working right without feedback)

@Matthias : If you do central function using only the HS aren't you worried by the fact that 'basic functionality' requires the HS and will not work without it? Am I paranoid when I use real central address to make sure I can turn off the lights even when my HS would be kaput?


Just my observation on sunday morning :smilie_be

kris

[MarkusS]

@MarkusS : I agree that using status feedback on every switch could give some serious bus load, but using it only on dimmers seems to be acceptable (anyway I do not know of another way to get them working right without feedback)


I didn't invent the feedback-objects. Some actuators have them, some actuators require them to be configured, some actuators offer feedback as a option ...

As anything, they have advantages and disadvantages.

With a normal actuator, you don't really know whats going on. Did he get the message, did he react? With a feedback-telegram, you will know. The price you have to pay is the higher load on the EIB.

In small house, you should never have a problem with telegram-load, in a big building, this might be different.

Regards
Markus

[Matthias Schmidt]

I am NOT worried about possible HS breakdowns - for many reasons:

First, I am very confident, that MTBF for the HS is much higher than for standard PCs. Second, I have a second HS :) .

And in the end I think that "leaving on the lights for some hours" is not dangerous. The same for not switching RTRs from NIGHT to KOMFORT. My familiy would survive this.

I have to face the fact that for achieving a high level of comfort and "intelligence" in my house I have to rely on central controllers.

I live in my new house now for 3.5 years and I had NO EIB/HS/EIBPORT breakdown at all, but one breakdown of the heating control.

[Jan T]

Hey Guys,

thanks for the response and a special appreciation for the English.

If a get it wil, it's not possible the get the next example working well without HS.

example; 3 lightsourcing with 3 seperate switches and status led. One extra sigle switch central off with status led.
Status led of the central off switch is on if one (or more !!!) of the lightsources are one.
Situation now; I switch the 3 lightsources one, central on led gets one. I switch one lightsource off, central on led switches off. (but still 2 other lightsources are on).

Following the explanation above, I can't make one led watching the status of 3 different actors without using HS ?

And one other question, what is the link with the first groupaddress will be sending in a communication object and the 'sending' parameter (option) in a group address?

Hopefully with this answer, the pieces will come together for me.

Maybe some extra information about my background. Last year a build a new house, including a lot of EIB domotica devices of Gira. My electrician was EIB-certified, but at delivery he was just able to perform some basic stuff. I also baught a homeserver, a smart terminal and EIB Berker alarm, which he had sold to me but he had no experience at all in implementation. :shithappe
That's why a bought myself ETS3 and started a fast self education pad (and I'm also very interested in this stuff).
Being honest, it's not that easy as thought, but I managed to do the full configuration of the alarm (with still some minor problems) and ETS3. I now did the Tastsensor 2 plus config (thanks to this forum) and I now want to start with HS.
@kris. Kris, I know that you are also living in Belgium and you seems to know a lot about it. Are you a 'professional' and is it possible to hire your services for some professional help?

Kind Regards
Jan

[MarkusS]

Without "additional intelligence", the central switch-led will never work the way you expect it to work because it can't distinguish. You need a OR-gate with the local switches as input and the output connected to your central switch-led, this will result in central switch led = on if any switch has triggered any light.

Usually, ETS adds the sending-flag to the first group-address you add to a comminication-object. This is the default. You can change this manually by assigning the sending-flag to any other group-address on a communication-object but there will always ONLY ONE group-address with sending-flag. It's good practice to assign the sending group-address first so there is no need to change this later by manipulating the flag but feel free to do so if necessary.

With your configuration, it should be possible to hire any professional, even here in germany because the Gira Homeserver has a IETS-Interface which enables programming through TCP/IP (Internet).

Regards
Markus